Two Steps Forward: The Two Women Deans of Colorado Law in Conversation
Dean Inniss and Dean Levin connected this year to get to know one another. As is perhaps not surprising for two people who share such an iconic common experience, they found much to discuss, such as how they came to law teaching and leadership, their impressions of how the social climate has shaped their trajectories, and thoughts about where the legal academy should be heading next.
This interview was conducted through a series of exchanges in writing and on the phone. Transcript has been edited for clarity.
Dean Lolita Buckner Inniss (LBI): Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me!
Dean Betsy Levin (BL): It’s my pleasure. I’m so glad you reached out.
LBI: And I’m really glad you were able to connect! There’s so much for us to talk about, so why don’t we jump right in. Did you always want to be a law school dean?
BL: Being a dean was never in my wildest thoughts. Before becoming dean of the law school, I was a professor at Duke University and served as general counsel of the U.S. Department of Education after that. While at the Department of Education, I discovered that I liked administration.
LBI: I didn’t exactly start out with the dream to be a law school dean either. I came from a very working-class, poor family, and I’m the first in my family to have a regular K–12 education, never mind graduate school! I knew I had the chops to be a law professor (intellect and whatnot). That’s not enough (or even needed for some)—and I lacked any clue on how to do it. When I fell into an opportunity, it was still pretty circuitous. So, I definitely resonate with what you are saying.
BL: When President Reagan fired me, I returned to teaching. Shortly thereafter the assistant to President Weber at the University of Colorado contacted me about the deanship at Colorado. I was surprised when the University of Colorado called back. I didn’t think they were very serious about me at the interview, and I had many more questions to ask them. Ultimately, they offered me the position of dean and I took it, staying there until 1987.
LBI: I can’t help but wonder what prompted that initial call you received. Could you share with us a bit about what was going on in the country and in Colorado when you got that call to interview, and when you began your deanship?
BL: Of course. It was an eventful period in this country’s history. Ronald Reagan became the president, the AIDS virus was identified, and, of course, there was the Cold War. Interestingly, President Reagan appointed Sandra Day O’Connor to the Supreme Court the same year I became dean.
LBI: Even with all those difficulties, it was still groundbreaking to see a woman Supreme Court justice. It does seem that this kind of progress often takes place in waves. As we discussed on our call earlier, I’m the first Black dean of Colorado Law. I read recently that approximately 44% of law deans are women, and as of 2021, the number of Black women leading American law schools reached a high of 28. While I was very excited to become the dean here, it did feel in some ways like a risk, you know, stepping into a position that, until very recently, has been almost ubiquitously held by white men. What is the greatest risk you’ve taken as a professional?
BL: There are two moments in my career that come to mind. First, leaving geology (my major at Bryn Mawr). I was working for the U.S. Geological Survey in Washington, D.C., but after 10 years decided to leave and go to law school. And second, going into teaching. I was working as the director of education at the Urban Institute when I was recruited to teach at Duke and taught there from 1973 until 1981.
LBI: Your entry into law teaching must certainly have been noteworthy, given how few women there were on law faculties during that time. People of color were even less present in law teaching. Why do you think women and people from racial minority backgrounds have been, and continue to be, underrepresented on the faculties and in the leadership of law schools?
BL: Why? Well, I believe it has to do with a number of factors: there are few role models for women and people from minority backgrounds when they are in law schools, which goes hand in hand with a lack of mentors. From the institution’s side, we see a lack of aggressive recruiting and hiring practices, and faculties tend to replicate themselves with those who look like them and come from the same background.
LBI: Agreed. I like to believe that people like you and me can change that. Would you describe current professional and social conditions as providing equality for women?
BL: No, because of the ingrained tradition of who should have the role of family caregiver. And we see similar issues when it comes to a lack of female mentors and faculties that are too male-dominated. There should be more effort to have faculties more like the balance with respect to gender and ethnicity of the current Supreme Court.
LBI: I absolutely agree. It occurs to me that you were able to see Justice O’Connor sworn in as the first woman on the Supreme Court during your first year as a dean. And what a hopeful parallel it is that, though it was technically my second year as dean, I was able to see Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson being sworn in as the first African American woman on the Supreme Court. Still, I tend towards some skepticism about whether we have progressed much—I must note, for example, that between your term as dean and mine, four decades have passed. I am, however, an optimistic skeptic, for there’s no denying that some crucial advances have occurred. Nor is there any doubt that you and your work continue to inspire me and others like me in the legal academy and beyond. Thank you so much for speaking with me. I look forward to next time.
BL: Likewise!